Countdown to Small Gifts 7/7: The Ultimate Remus/Sirius Poll

[magnetic-pole.livejournal.com]

[Poll #1882194]

Comments

Two birds with one stone

[mysid.livejournal.com]

i chose to alter Sirius's death, and in my mind, that would prevent Remus's marriage to Tonks. I think Remus/Tonks was mourning sex (followed by pregnancy-induced marriage), so if Sirius never died...

The only drawback would be no Teddy.

[shutupeccles.livejournal.com]

Precisely!

[magnetic-pole.livejournal.com]

Heh. This is a wily group of shippers, M. You weren't the only one with this line of thought! M.

[pavlablack.livejournal.com]

I should have thought of that!

[adistantsun]

My thoughts exactly! ^_~

[sambethe.livejournal.com]

Exactly!

[laroseminuit.livejournal.com]

That was my first thought, but I assumed I had to interpret the question as meaning Sirius doesn't die, but Remus still marries Tonks (not really sure how that would come about, but ok) -- and that would be way, way worse than Sirius dying and Remus not marrying Tonks.

[sleeper6.livejournal.com]

Great poll! I'm looking forward to the fics.

[magnetic-pole.livejournal.com]

Let the fest season begin! *glances at clock* So close now... M.

[evening12]

Actually aside from James, one of my favourite supporting cast member is Teddy. I love AU fics where Sirius only meets Remus after Remus divorces Tonks/Tonks dies/it was just a one time thing so they were never a couple.

I started shipping the both of them together purely by accident. I was reading Draco/Harry, and I wanted to shake things up so I started reading Severus/Harry....and then I wanted to shake things up again so I gave Sirius/Harry and Remus/Harry a try. On one of those tries, Sirius was parenting Harry...with Remus. Thus, my love affair with the puppies started.

[magnetic-pole.livejournal.com]

Teddy! Mea culpa. Can't believe I forgot him.

I love that convoluted how-I-met-your-ship story. :) Harry certainly gets around! M.

[nerakrose]

i'm very fond of AUs in which Remus and Sirius only meet after Remus has had Teddy. Because Teddy! ♥

i picked 'change sirius' death' because i don't think remus would've married dora if sirius had still been alive.

also my favourite supporting characters are likely always going to be james and regulus. especially regulus because i like to think that sirius' and regulus' brotherhood and friendship wasn't all that shot (at least not all the time). and they're more alike than sirius ever knew, in canon, and so i'm obv also very fond of fics/AUs where regulus lives and he and sirius have a relatively normal brotherhood going on. ♥

[magnetic-pole.livejournal.com]

Gah, Teddy! *hangs head in shame* I knew I was forgetting someone...

And Regulus. I was so ready for more Regulus backstory, after HBP. Wish we knew more about him. M.

[nerakrose]

aww don't worry :)

me too! it was a shame we never learned more :/

[themessrs.livejournal.com]

I'm such a huge Regulus fan it's ridiculous. There's hope for possibly more info about him, though, when Pottermore finally gets to the HBP section. ;]

[nerakrose]

haha yeah, six years down the line, or something, with the speed it's going at XD

[mutuisanimis.livejournal.com]

Like others have been saying, raising Harry/Teddy AUs are some of my favorites, though my favorite era is them at Hogwarts (the mythical post-Hogwarts flat being a veryveryvery close second).

[magnetic-pole.livejournal.com]

Teddy! I can't believe I forgot Teddy! *blushes* M.

[midnitemaraud-r.livejournal.com]

I don't have a favorite POV character. I love writing from both points of view, and also outside points of view, particularly James. Which one I use depends entirely on the story I'm telling, and most times I don't even know which one I'm going to use until I start writing.

As for when I started shipping them, technically it was after I read a fic in late August/early September, 2004, but after reading PoA, I started unconsciously shipping them in a bromancy way. PoA totally changed how I looked at the HP universe and began my eleven-years-and-still-going love affair with both Remus and Sirius as characters.

Also, I'd want to hug both of them. Often!

[magnetic-pole.livejournal.com]

You PoA folks amaze me, that you saw the connection so early. (Because even if JKR didn't intend to write them as a couple, they're conceived of in relation to one another.) I read that scene, didn't see anything in it (and you know I'm always looking for gay characters, too!), and kept on reading. It wasn't until Remus showed up again in OotP that something clicked.

Hugs by all means! M.

[midnitemaraud-r.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't say I saw the romantic connection at first. It was more that after the big reveal at the shack, I'd spent the whole book falling in love with Remus, and then all of a sudden - after having my mind completely boggled! I wasn't spoiled for anything! - it was all "well, of course! RemusandSirius!!" and I just wanted more about them both. My biggest disappointment with GoF was that she'd introduced the two and then there just wasn't enough of them in the book for my liking. It wasn't until right after I'd finished OotP that I went and actively searched for fic about them, and even then, I wasn't looking for shipfic (or even hetfic). I just wanted fic of them together in a main role.

I was well aware of fandom when I first started reading the HP books, but I was very active in a much smaller fandom at the time (Trixie Belden) and the idea of the HP fandom was so daunting just because it was so huge. (The other large fandoms I'd been interested in before - Star Trek, Star Wars, Highlander - I'd just lurked on websites and mailing lists. I didn't actively participate much.) So it wasn't until I finished reading OotP (okay, like half hour after I finished!) that I finally decided to dip my toe in the roiling waters. (LOL, dip my toe. I jumped in head first!)

The first HP fic I read was "After the End" over at Sugarquill, and I mostly read gen fic about their days at Hogwarts until I stumbled upon a ship fic when I eventually ended up at FFNet. I don't remember which one it was, or who wrote it, but it was terrible! But! It was like I'd been hit over the head with an anvil! I had the biggest "DUH! Of course!" moment ever, and realized I'd been shipping them in my head all along, just without the sex. LOL! (gryffindorj will be horrified by that admission, I'm sure! :-P) Then of course, I had to read ALL THE FIC!

I haven't looked back since, and R/S is, and probably always be, my OTP of OTPs.

[sambethe.livejournal.com]

I love the part about the finding terrible fic on ff.net. It reminds me of my first stumbling on r/s.

I read books 1-6 in whirlwind right as 6 came out. By the end of 5 Sirius had totally suckered me in. I scared my bf when I accidentally woke him by tossing the book across the room in a fit of rage at the end.

Shortly after, I saw some reference to a fic on mugglenet and went searching. I don't even remember what it was called, but it was Mauraders based, long and basically had Lily sleeping with all of them at various points. Anyway, despite the terribleness, I was entranced and wanted to know more about them. I remembered a friend saying she was writing fic from that era and went looking. She happened to write Remus/Sirius and once I started reading it made total sense in my head. The rest is pretty much history.

[gryffindorj.livejournal.com]

ROFL! I am not horrified. What I find horrifying is that Remus is KILLING Sirius for favorite. WTF? Lets take Sirius and run away with him a lick his wounds for him.

[magnetic-pole.livejournal.com]

What I find horrifying is that Remus is KILLING Sirius for favorite. WTF?

I know! It's not 100% surprising because I think he did the same thing last year when we ran this poll, but on the whole it still really puzzles me. It's not what I would have predicted, based on reading fic and looking at art. M.

[gryffindorj.livejournal.com]

I have been thinking about this poll all day and particularly this part. I often feel in R/S fandom I am an odd duck and seeing what I picked and what the majority picked I now see why. I love Remus and adore him but it's not even close to a 50-50 split. I wonder if people identify with Remus more or a little bit of me wonders if there isn't a little bit of self-insert and people want to be Remus and have the tall, dark, bad boy love them. But then shouldn't they love Sirius more?

The one part I did feel in step was physically affectionate Sirius. In my mind he IS the more open one. Remus is closed, he keeps secrets, hides away. Sirius doesn't live his life like that. He is who he is and damn to anyone who tries to make him act otherwise. Even in his first meeting with James he's totally open, "My whole family is in Slytherin" We get the feeling he and James are fast friends but even then he doesn't give a shit about saying the right thing to impress him.

Oh and about the hugging thing after which traumatic event. In my mind Sirius leaving Grimmauld Place was liberating. It's about finally being free and not trapped there anymore. While life altering I don't see it as traumatic in my mind. HOWEVER what was the thing that finally made him leave? That might be pretty terrible to find out. Or you know could just be his hot head finally got the better of him.

Guess I had stronger feelings about the poll upon reflection :P

[midnitemaraud-r.livejournal.com]

I think the fandom perception of Remus is affected by a kind of nice guy syndrome. Like, in DH, when he and Harry had that argument in Grimmauld, and SO many people were all taken aback and railed against JKR for writing Remus as OOC. I just kind of side-eyed everyone there because clearly fanon Remus had divulged so much from canon Remus, and so many people seemed to have drank the kool-aid, you know? Not that I don't love fanon Remus (or fanon Sirius!) but we're not exactly the most objective observers or interpreters here in fandom, especially those of us invested ship-wise.

I think a lot of the Remus characterization was, not spoiled, but majorly affected, by characterizations in a lot of very popular fics: Shoebox, and pretty much every single one of Copperbadge's fics. Sam wrote Remus as, well, if not lacking most of his passive-aggressive tendencies, then at least far more aggressive and actionable than passive. This isn't exactly a problem - it's part of what fanfic is all about - but people bought the myth, and when compared to the 'reality' of canon...

Shipping people who aren't shipped in canon changes them, because relationships change people. As a result, fanon characterizations can never be truly consistent with canon. It becomes a 'might-have-been', which again, absolutely nothing wrong with it, but the fact of the matter is that JKR did not write her story with R/S as a couple in mind. (I know, I know, sacrilege and all, but still.) When we add that element to their pasts, the very nature of altering their past to include that has to change the characters, from how JKR envisioned them to how we . . . enhance them. It's different if we add it to, say post-PoA - that they were never together during school and the relationship only began post-PoA, compared to having them together any time pre-Halloween 1981. (Just like how canon would be vastly different if Harry/Draco had got together during their school years as opposed to after. You can try to work around canon and squeeze things in, and then invent elaborate reasons why canon progressed as it did, and sometimes those stories work, but it has the effect of constraining the characters to fit the story, as opposed to writing a story that conforms to the characters.

*re-reads above paragraph* Um . . . I'm not quite sure if I explained myself all that well, but I think you get what I mean.

Anyway, to get back to my point, I think Remus was changed more by fanon to make him look better, more so than Sirius was. It's perfectly okay that Sirius is kind of an asshole, but it seems like it's less acceptable for Remus to be so (i.e. DH).

[magnetic-pole.livejournal.com]

Ah, see, I haven't really read SBP or Copperbadge's fics. As I was saying to J above, somehow fanon Remus became the who'll remember your birthday and bring you flowers, and Sirius became the bad boy you can't help loving anyway, and it puzzles me sometimes, because I've never quite understood where that came from.

Shipping people who aren't shipped in canon changes them, because relationships change people...When we add that element to their pasts, the very nature of altering their past to include that has to change the characters

*smile* Did you read the very first fic posted? It's exactly that argument. M.

[gryffindorj.livejournal.com]

I like darker Remus. I know, minority here. But if one is an arse (read: Sirius) and the other is endlessly nice(read:Remus) I think doormat and UGH! Remus can hold his own with James and Sirius otherwise I don't think they would have been friends. It would be a disservice to make him Peter. They are not the same. Also he's a Gryffindor. Did you see that interview from JKR talking about Gryffindors having that showboating quality? Makes me think of the very first lesson Remus ever taught in POA. When they were on the way to the staff room and he shoots the wad of gum into Peeves' nose. Did Remus have to do that, no. Was it funny and cool and a perfect way to get kids are your side, absolutely. He showed his funny little skills.

I agree with everything you said, BTW. How surprising ;)

[magnetic-pole.livejournal.com]

I had the impression that folks *did* love Sirius more! But I think you might be right about the self-insert, or Lisa might be right about the "nice guy syndrome" she describes below. Somehow, fanon Remus came to be the guy who'd remember your birthday and bring you flowers, and Sirius came to be the thoughtless one you just can't help loving anyway. Fandom is fascinating! M.

[gryffindorj.livejournal.com]

While Sirius has his charms, I think of him as the guy who loves you all the way. The people he loves he loves hard. James, Remus, Harry. There is nothing he wouldn't do for you. But there is that part you are on the wrong side, you fuck him (Peter) and watch out.

Maybe I'm on the wrong side about it all, cause it would be nice if my husband remembered my birthday earlier than the day before it occurs. :| (I feel I should qualify and say my husband isn't Sirius either but the comparison about the birthdays jumped out at me)

[magnetic-pole.livejournal.com]

I don't remember which one it was, or who wrote it, but it was terrible! But! It was like I'd been hit over the head with an anvil! I had the biggest "DUH! Of course!" moment ever, and realized I'd been shipping them in my head all along, just without the sex. LOL! (gryffindorj will be horrified by that admission, I'm sure! :-P) Then of course, I had to read ALL THE FIC!

Ha! I think bad fic has lured a lot of us in. I think I've told you this, but I just happened to run across fanfic online--unlike you, I had no idea what fandom was--and read a bit of something with Harry/Draco. Which was fine, clearly closet-dwelling Harry's got gay potential, but as soon as I realized what might be out there, and what the / meant and how there seemed to be fic for every conceivable pairing, I began searching for Remus/Sirius. I'd been shipping them without knowing what shipping was since Remus showed up at Sirius' house in OotP.

I actually didn't know what Sugarquill was, so I googled it after reading your comment. There's a discussion of R/S there from 2002, with recs for After the End and some of Canis M's work. I didn't realize they were so popular so early on. M.

[xylodemon.livejournal.com]

I think I spotted it so early because I was looking for it -- not just slashy subtext in general, because I'm always looking for that, and if it isn't there I'll just cheerfully make it up out of thin air -- because something about Remus tugged at my heart very early in PoA, he just seemed so lonely, so about midway through the book I was really rooting for something good to happen to him, and when Sirius showed up I was like YES THERE IT IS RIGHT THERE.

[magnetic-pole.livejournal.com]

Aw! *hugs* this comment. So true. M.

[shutupeccles.livejournal.com]

No favourites when it comes to POV. Love internal, external, and alternating perspectives.
I began shipping them the moment they began bickering and bantering in the book PoA. Snape nailed it when he said they resembled an old married couple.
My head canon insists an hereditary werewolf kink runs rampant through the house of Black. Remus was destined for trouble.
I'd have them live on in Grimmauld Place because Sirius wouldn't be dead and that address would become a whole less grim due to all the shenanigans going on.

[rewrites24.livejournal.com]

Remus = Blacknip? LOL!

[rewrites24.livejournal.com]

Haha. Sirius's Death...no brainer! Even before I became hardcore R/S I loved Sirius. I hate when he died. D: but like others, I'm torn because Teddy!!! I especially love raising Teddy AU or fics where Sirius adopts Teddy. *melts from teh cuteness*

And YES! I'm not the only one who digs some RAB action between the pups! I think I used to be a lot more open-minded about shipping. I used to adore Lily/Remus and James/Remus...even Lily/Sirius (haha surprising because I don't dig het). Now I more or less exclusively ship R/S, but I have a weakness for Regulus. Regulus/Everyone! XD

These results are interesting.

[laroseminuit.livejournal.com]

Favorite supporting characters: other

brighty18's Uncles. I love them so.

[magnetic-pole.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes! And Lupinslittlesister's Uncle Alphard! We did not have enough spaces in that poll... M.

[gryffindorj.livejournal.com]

I can't hug Remus after leaving Tonks? And I refuse to pick a favorite era. It's all good depending on the mood.

[magnetic-pole.livejournal.com]

I can't hug Remus after leaving Tonks?

Absolutely! And I might give Tonks a hug. :) Actually, hugs all around. The folks older than Harry's generation really got beaten up in those books. M.

[moodring54.livejournal.com]

Favorite Supporting Cast: James & Lily! I can't help it, I'm a sucker for "happy couples" fic, especially when Lily and Remus are close, too.

Favorite Era: All the AUs! I like angst every once and awhile, but this canon... Jesus.

If you could scold one: Sirius, because Harry already got Remus in line.

I don't ship Remus or Sirius with anybody else. I am honestly only still in this fandom for this one pairing.

If you could alter one (and only one) event: I know it's a cop-out, but even in an non-shippy way, I genuinely don't think Remus and Tonks would have been driven together without Sirius' death. There was just this air of desperation around Remus in Book 7 that almost certainly had something to do with losing the last of his childhood best friends.

If you could keep them together forever, where would it be? Definitely the mythical post-Hogwarts flat. I'm at a point in my life now where all the sexiness of school-aged anybody is gone, and everything is angst central.